Reframing Joy as a mental Health strategy with Desmond Upton Patton, phd, msw

An interview by Ian Kilpatrick, ICW

Photo from Penn Today

In this next installment of ICW's 15 Year Anniversary story series had the privilege of sitting down with our valued board member and decorated scholar, Desmond Upton Patton. Desmond's accolades are too lengthy to list here, but first and foremost he is a caring, thoughtful human who has made groundbreaking discoveries in his examination of the influence of social media on gang violence. We're extremely grateful for his work and support of ICW! Given that it's Mental Health Awareness month we focused on Desmond's recent journey reframing the way he looks at joy and how we can use that change to get through hard times and even end gun violence.

IAN: How does mental health show up in your work and how does it connect to ICW?

DESMOND: So I'm a social worker who studies emotions and what's interesting is that this focus on mental health was not what I trained for. I'm a gun violence researcher. But in spending time with young people, I have learned that a lot of the ways in which people experience the impact of gun violence isn't just structural alone; there are impacts that affect individuals and communities and families in terms of their own mental well being. And so I think that has been an important motivator for me in this work because I would see how the experience of loss and grief would not only affect how people experienced gun violence, but also impacted how they thought about themselves and future retaliation as well.

I think helping people to understand their emotions, to feel those emotions, to not push those emotions aside, has been critical to the work. That's kind of a starting place for me. For myself, I've learned from the people that I have worked with in this space so mental health is incredibly important to me because I think it is the thing that allows me to stand up and to do this work by being clear headed and being thoughtful and being mindful, which I think are really important characteristics of someone who can engender positive mental health. For the last two years, I've integrated my work to hold space for the gun violence work that I do, but also to understand that there are other ways in which we could tackle gun violence. I don't think we talk enough about it. It's like, how do we build positive beings?

There are lots of programs that do that and I'll get to that as we talk about ICW, but I think building that capacity is critical. And one of the things that we've missed out on is understanding the role and impact of joy as a framework and intervention and prevention tool in this space. For me, I'm not talking about joy as fleeting moments of happiness, I'm talking about joy as a framework that undergirds how we navigate tough times, how we make decisions, how we connect, and how we grow with each other.

I think joy, if we use it as a kind of operating system, then I think it would be a useful puristic to get through really hard, tough and chaotic moments. But the challenge is always that people think about joy as these things, these events, things that you can post on social media and you're smiling. And I think that that is a function of feeling good, but I don't think that that's necessarily joy, because joy is oftentimes birthed out of really hard times that help you to see and envision a future. For me, that's the potential of joy. That's why we need to leverage joy as a framework. And this is exactly what I think I was able to do through providing not only opportunities for folks, but to help them reimagine their identity, to reimagine self, to reimagine who they can be in this world. Through training and support and resources, all of those things are core components of joy. They enact joy, they amplify joy, they are the connector. The connecting pieces for joy. I don't know if we have framed ICW as this “joy space,” but I think that is what happens at ICW, and I think that is the future of ICW.

IAN: And to add to that, joy requires some sort of a feeling of safety, right? A place to go that doesn't feel dangerous and ICW provides that base. I think that's what a lot of the participants that we work with are systematically denied to the point that many come to ICW having never felt truly safe and so joy becomes even harder to access.

DESMOND: Yes, I actually wrote a post yesterday about how joy is hard and that it is hard because there are so many things that are out of our control that I think have the capacity to limit how we see joy or to even understand to what extent we have control over our own joy. And safety is one of those things that I think it's really hard because many people, especially folks who are interacting with ICW may live or have grown up in neighborhoods where you have no control over safety. It is out of your control. And yet, you can go to those same neighborhoods and find people with lots of joy and I think for a lot of people, you know, it has been the only thing that you have some control over.

(this is where we got side tracked by a conversation about Sinners starring Michael B. Jordan. Long story short, go see it!)

IAN: Okay so if there's a Venn diagram of joy and mental health, I’m hearing you say there's a lot going on in the overlap?. Would you mind elaborating on that and sharing what methods you've seen work to impact both of those things and that impact that overlap?

DESMOND: Yeah, I don’t treat people with mental health so I can’t speak about what I've seen, but my work does allow me to talk about what I think. This is mental health awareness Month and one of the things that's important to underscore is that I think joy is a mental health strategy. That's a full stop. Usually when we talk about mental health, ideas of medication or seeing a therapist are all good things, but they are one-sided things. Part of the challenge is that when we think about mental health, it conjures up words, statements, and emotions that are usually negative or from a deficit perspective or something that you need or you're missing. What I am personally experiencing, what I've been writing about, is that human beings are complex individuals that hold the challenges of the world and life. But also, what exists within us are bright lights of joy and the ability to get through these things. We need to hold them constant and give them both equal weight. So for me, that's where joy should and could be a mental health strategy. I mean a couple things by that, the characteristics of honesty and intentionality.

We have to get honest about who we are as individuals and what we need and that is hard. It's hard to be like, actually, I don't like having meetings all day and I'm not actually productive during that. What I need to do is only meet in the morning. That to me, is a way of inserting joy in your day, in your work day, and your productivity. Intentionality and honesty, you have to be vulnerable with it.

I think you have to be willing to try new things to talk about it, to get advice, to identify resources and for me that includes getting close to what joy actually means for you. Lastly, you have to fiercely protect it. Because a lot of people think that talking about joy is naive, or  something that you do as a luxury and I think we have to eradicate the idea that joy is a luxury. It is what we're born with. I think it is a necessity and it's not silly, it is resistance. You have to protect it at home, protect it at work, and protect it in your communities. Because, again, it is one thing that you do have some control over. You don't always have the same level of access to it, but I do think that we can figure out ways to have access to it by thinking about joy in both small and big ways, thinking about just getting a cup of coffee, having a good conversation, can be joy. It doesn't just have to be work and part of it is that cognitive reframing that we need to just continuously do. That's how I'm thinking about joy as a mental health strategy.

IAN: I love that. And I would assume it could be a challenge for young people experiencing the circumstances that ICW participants are in to mentally get to that concept of finding joy in the little things when their mind and nervous system is so conditioned to be in survival mode and to disconnect from emotion.

So, from all that you've learned personally and in your research, what would be your advice for both them and for people like ICW staff who are not social workers, but are in a unique position to make a difference?

DESMOND: I think, one, I think you have to define joy for yourself. You don't need to go look up a definition. You don't need a psychologist or a social worker to tell you what joy is. We all know when we feel it, when we see it, but we may not label it as joy, but who cares about the name? Maybe you call it entertainment. Maybe you call it happiness. Maybe whatever you call it, whatever you call it, but I don't want to get bogged down and the naming of it is futile.

So one is defining it for yourself, two is understanding it as a birthright and a necessity in that a part of it is allowing yourself to think joy is freedom. I think that's what it is, joy is freedom. Allowing yourself to see the small things that are happening in your life as a part of unlocking freedom, I think is really important. Oftentimes, when people who live in the world where survival is the most important thing, it feels like joy becomes really big and hard. It seems far, it seems, I don't have the money, the resources, because you don't see the everyday, you don't see the mundane, you don't see the banal as being a part of a joyful life, a joyful architecture, if you will. So waking up, having a good meal, having a cool conversation, those small, intricate things, those nuances are vitally important. Recognizing that as joy is essential and I think what ICW does and continues to do is create a community of joy. 

One of the things that has happened to me with my posting about joy is that many people come to me and want to talk about joy. And that was actually an unintended thing. I wasn't posting that to actually create a community. Usually when I post something about joy, it's because I'm struggling with something that's affecting my joy, and I realize if people now ask me about joy, they share about their joy, and it radically changes my day and my weeks. I think ICW can foster and create that community for folks when someone is having a rough day. I don't want to suggest this toxic positivity where someone's in a bad day and you immediately tell them to go find the joy in it. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a framework that allows you to sit and to listen and to be thoughtful, and see where that leads you as well. That is a critical thing that folks can create for themselves, but also can create a larger community as well.

Follow Desmond on LinkedIn for more on Joy and his incredible research!